Madonna hits out at social media as she gives deeply personal interview about album Madame X and ‘unconventional’ family

FANS and critics alike were taken aback by the emergence of a new Madonna alter ego this year — ballsy Madame X who refuses to listen to any sort of criticism.

It turns out the previously secret character has been with the Queen of Pop since her days as a rebellious teenage ballet dancer in New York.

But it took the toxic social media culture of 2019 to go public — a world where the biggest-selling female artist of all time has even faced criticism from feminists for using the term “rape” despite being a rape survivor herself.

But today she tells me defiantly: “I refuse to bend a knee to convention and what society expects of me as a woman.”

Yup, it’s a punchy, fearless, self-styled “don’t f*** with me” Madonna who I sat down with this week at a private members’ club in West London for a world-exclusive podcast interview.

But the vulnerability she often chooses to hide is on display too. The 60-year-old opens up about the pressure of being an “unconventional” single mother, the fears for her six children, the rape that changed her life and how she considered running for US President.

The social media-led world she is launching Madame X into is vastly different to the ’80s when Madonna became the world’s biggest star.

She is a prolific user of the networks — amassing nearly 14 million Instagram followers, 2.5 million on Twitter and 18 million likes for her Facebook page.

Yet she says: “You get caught up in comparing yourself to others. I think Instagram is made to make you feel bad. People are really a slave to winning people’s approvals.”

She adds: “I was lucky enough to have a life as an artist before the phone and Instagram and social media because I did have that time to develop as an artist and a human without feeling the pressure of judgment of other people or comparing myself to other people.”

The social media culture “runs people’s lives” and, as a result, it’s now harder for stars to “stick to your guns and be who you are”.

Speaking on the special episode of The Dan Wootton Interview podcast — which you can subscribe to for free — she adds: “The world needs that. We need voices that are unique, we need inspiration. And that’s what people don’t understand — I want our other ­artists to think outside the box.”

I have interviewed Madonna for her past three album campaigns but this incarnation as Madame X is by far the most comfortable I have seen her. A lot has changed in the four years since our last in-depth chat.

Most significantly she has moved her four young children from New York to Lisbon, Portugal, to further the chances of her 13-year-old son David’s professional football career.

She arrived with plans to be a full-time “soccer mum”, which she was initially, before being drawn to the local music scene that inspired the sound of her new album.

She says: “After a while I just said, ‘Well it’s not meant to be, I’ve got to do something with my time’.”

And you got inspired? “Yeah I did because I could tell that all these people were performing and singing and playing music because they love music and it was a way for them to share.

“It has nothing to do with Instagram followers, or their pay cheque, or how much they were being paid.” Her four youngest children — David and Mercy, both 13, and Stelle and Esterem, both six — got involved with the album, with David even helping to write the song Batuka.

Madonna recalls: “My children love music and so they got in on it. I said, ‘Which word is better?’ And he chose the word and I said, ‘You’re right, that’s better’. So he now considers himself a writer on the song.”

Go on, give him a credit, I joke. She smiles then confirms: “I gave him a credit! But all the girls are singing.” Despite moving to the other side of the world to support David’s football career, Madonna insists she doesn’t care what line of work her children get into.

She explains: “It’s a conversation I have with my kids all the time — that no matter what you chose to do, whether you become a great soccer player, an incredible dancer or, you know, an amazing singer and songwriter or scientist, or you work for the UN — being a compassionate human being who treats others with dignity and respect is the goal.”

Madonna then reveals her oldest daughter Lourdes, 22, who is an aspiring dancer, has been hit particularly hard by the pressures of her superstardom.

She explains: “So I say to my daughter, ‘You weren’t put on this earth to be me, you were put on this earth to be you. You be you. And use your platform and who you are to be a good role model for other young women your age. Stop being so consumed with the way you look or how people are going to compare you to me.’”

Madonna dramatically interrupts the interview to apologise: “Sorry my stomach’s making so much noise.”

I’m aware she skipped dinner yesterday because she was working late into the night so I suggest I should have brought her a burger. Her face screws up instantly and she says: “No, I don’t eat burgers. Yuck. But I did have French fries yesterday.” Then she adds with a laugh: “Don’t worry, I can afford to lose a few pounds.”

Nothing could be further from the truth, of course. Dressed in a glamorous multi-coloured gown and doused in her favourite new perfume Portrait of a Lady, Madonna remains the epitome of superstar — age-defying and era-defying. Madonna is single and her family situation is “unconventional”, she says with pride.

On the track Looking for Mercy, she sings she is “looking for love”, but she says: “People are becoming more and more accepting of unconventional lifestyles, unconventional relationships, marriages, families.

“And I fit into that category too. I have six children, four of them are adopted and I’m not married. I continue to defy convention in terms of having an unconventional family.”

Of course, Madonna has remained at the forefront of LGBT rights and Aids awareness for her entire career and is excited by the moves in recent years towards sexual fluidity. I wonder if it’s changed the way she defines her sexuality.

“No, I’ve just continued to feel the same way that I have always about my sexual identity and who I am sexually,” she answers matter-of-factly. I don’t like labels anyway so I don’t want to be put in a box or categorised or called something.

“But I’m thrilled that people feel the freedom that they now feel to say what they like, who they love, what they want to be. That’s why like the song Dark Ballet, I could dress like a boy, I could dress like girl, you know, I can be who I want to be. And it’s not so crazy any more.”

Madonna has also used Madame X to reference the rape she suffered soon after moving to New York as a “naïve” teenager from middle America. It’s a topic close to her heart but one she has spoken about sparingly during four decades in the spotlight.

But, perhaps because of the recent criticism of her use of the word, Madonna openly tells me just how much that traumatic experience “shaped and changed” her.

She says: “I didn’t understand that people could be so cruel and inhumane until that moment. But I also didn’t understand how strong and resilient a human could be.

“So it definitely made me. I was dancing at the time and for months afterwards I wouldn’t leave my apartment. I wouldn’t speak about it to anybody. I couldn’t talk about it. I didn’t really understand what happened.”

But then she started “slowly coming out of my shell”.

She recalls: “I realised that I was a survivor and I could go on and I would be stronger because of it.” I was like, ‘Wow.’ I mean there’s nothing pretty about my life then but all those experiences made me who I am today and I don’t take life for granted. Being violated that way, it certainly made me a stronger person.”

And with her trademark steeliness, Madame X takes over from Madonna and adds: “I mean, don’t f*** with me.”

• GOT a story? RING The Sun on 0207 782 4104 or WHATSAPP on 07423720250 or EMAIL exclusive@the-sun.co.uk